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Fennec Legality?

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cat person
Reputable Member

Hi Artemis and TamanduaGirl,

The way the fox law was explained to me is that some species can be possessed if breed/raised/"orphaned" in the state. But NO species of fox can be imported. But as I said it depends who you talk to. If you talk to someone different then me you will get a different explanation I bet.

I know how back woods KY is. I am glad your not offend. But since you live there you understand what I mean .

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Posted : January 1, 2011 9:13 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

I know how back woods KY is. I am glad your not offend. But since you live there you understand what I mean .

Aye, I know exactly what you mean. icon_biggin.gif Some aspects of that I love, but some...not so much.

Does anyone know of any fennec breeders in KY?

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Topic starter Posted : January 1, 2011 9:54 pm
TamanduaGirl
Admin Admin

Idaho was like that kinda. I looked into moving there because, at the time anyway, they didn't have laws against owning foxes or exotics, but when I talked to the state vet they said there was no chance they would ever issue an import permit for a fox and you need one since no fennecs in the state, and all animals needed import permits there, so in reality most exotics are banned there as there were few they would issue import permits from then those under specific rules.

The way I see this situation is they think all foxes are banned not realizing some are not vulpes or the other two listed. The federal ban on mongoose is that way they banned by genus but there were at least a couple genus of mongoose that didn't get listed.

The thing to do is work with the scientific names. Is a Fennecus Zerda allowed? They'll probably ask what it is. So explain it's a fox but one who's genus is not listed since all vulpes foxes are banned but genus Fennecus isn't listed in the law. If they come back that a fennec is really Vulpes Zerda then you're stuck. But then there are some like Otocyon megalotis which is the bat eared fox, so also not listed and available some times though no one here has them.

My fennec fox site: http://tiny-foxes.com
My anteater site: http://www.livingwithanteaters.com

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TamanduaGirl

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Posted : January 2, 2011 1:52 am
Artemis
Eminent Member

Well, I heard back from my email to Fish & Wildlife this morning. It's not exactly a positive response. See it below. My email:

Dear Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources Representative,

Greetings. I have been reading through the laws for "Exotic Pets" and have come across a nagging question. While some animals are clearly outlawed, others are in a grey area of importation versus possession. My question is regarding the Fennec Fox (Fennecus Zerda). Are they legal to possess in Kentucky? If so, are they legal to import into the state? Are permits needed? Any light that you can shed on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Now, the reply.

The Fennec Fox is Vulpes zerda and all species of Vulpes are prohibited from importation . For reference, 2:081 section 4 reads all Vulpes species.

Section 4. Importation prohibited. (1) The following species shall not be imported into Kentucky unless specified in Section 2 of this administrative regulation or subsection (2) of this section:

(a) Coyotes (Canis latrans);

(b) Foxes (Vulpes spp; Alopex lagopus; Urocyon cinereoargenteus)

If you are seeking a pet, I strongly urge you to visit your local animal shelter and adopt a dog or cat. There are thousands of these animals in dire need of a home. While a dog or cat is not exotic, they are superior for pets. Practically every dog and cat that I've ever owned was a stray or came from the pound - and I've loved every single one of them and had no regrets.

Sincerely,

Dave Baker

Kentucky Fish and Wildlife

I am frustrated. He only answered one of my questions, and that was one I had already figured out - thanks to y'all. icon-smile

And while I appreciate that he promotes shelter animals, that was not my question. I've taken care of dogs and cats my entire life. And there are many that need homes...but I'm not looking to add another dog or cat to my household at the moment.

Gah... So I'm still not sure whether or not Fennecs are legal to possess in my state.

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Topic starter Posted : January 3, 2011 11:34 am
trish_clare
Reputable Member

Well, at least we cleared that part up. What was it someone mentioned earlier - about a fox that did not have a scientific name that began with Vulpes? The bat eared fox, I think it was. Maybe you could get one of those if you are truly aching to have a fox. However, I doubt they were born in captivity or bottle fed so it will be a different experience.

I think you should e-mail him back and ask him if it is legal to own a vulpes zerda in the state, even though you cannot import them. Then you could see about finding a breeder.

Here's something interesting I read on Wes' website

Unfortunately, one of our members has to get rid of her baby. You can see her in the photos section. Her name is Tinkerbell. She is 2 1/2 years old , Cage and Everything $1500, They are located south of Louisville, KY, will not ship, pick up only. Her husband had a heart attack and a quad bypass surgery, and they have a 1 year old now and they just cannot care for her anymore. If you are interested, contact Angela at (502) 930-2555.

It seems they are in KY. You could contact them and see about possibly adopting their baby (she is in KY so you would not be importing her) or at least see who they got her from, and if it was legal.

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Posted : January 3, 2011 1:37 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

Hey trish_clare -

I'm also a member on Wes' website. icon_biggin.gif I had seen that, and perused the woman's website. She got her fennec from a breeder in Indiana. So, it wasn't exactly legal. And, honestly, I am not prepared for a fox at the moment. I don't feel comfortable with my living situation mixing with a fox, being a full-time university student and working full-time as well. Right now I want to focus on learning as much as I can about them so that I will be prepared when my living situation makes it possible to keep a fox.

And...I'll look into the bat-eared fox. I don't support "breeders" taking animals from the wild. No matter what species. But I will look into that species of fox.

EDIT: I also just emailed the KY Fish & Wildlife Representative back. We'll see what he says. icon_confused.gif

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Topic starter Posted : January 3, 2011 7:36 pm
tombraiderwes
Reputable Member

I'm also a member on Wes' website . . . And, honestly, I am not prepared for a fox at the moment. I don't feel comfortable with my living situation mixing with a fox, being a full-time university student and working full-time as well.

and I think you are wise for evaluating your living situation before going into somthing you might potentially not have time for.

I don't support "breeders" taking animals from the wild. No matter what species. But I will look into that species of fox.

I disagree in certain cases. A lot of species have been saved by the pet trade that way. I am personally trying to import pale Foxes, they are so rare they are classified as 'Data Deficient.' I told my importer I only want babies or juveniles anyway. Especially since baby Pale Foxes are a delicacy in some African countries.

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Posted : January 3, 2011 8:49 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

Hey Wes - I was hoping you'd post on this thread at some point. I've scoured your site, and found it quite helpful. icon_biggin.gif

Since you seem to be the man to ask about fennecs, I'll ask you: Do you know of any fennec breeders in Kentucky? Or breeders of bat-eared foxes anywhere within the continental US?

I disagree in certain cases. A lot of species have been saved by the pet trade that way. I am personally trying to import pale Foxes, they are so rare they are classified as 'Data Deficient.' I told my importer I only want babies or juveniles anyway. Especially since baby Pale Foxes are a delicacy in some African countries.

Ah, you're right. I hadn't considered that aspect of the wild-born pet trade. The image that I have of wild-born "pets" is the horrid images of chimpanzees in tiny cages on the black market.

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Topic starter Posted : January 3, 2011 9:11 pm
tombraiderwes
Reputable Member

It is really sad how the people who illegally acquire animal's have given the goodand caring pet owners a bad name. And the only breeder in Kentucky I knew of retired.

And I have never heard of a breeder of Bat-Eared foxes in the US. I think Ken's Exotics had originally tried to breed them with bad results, so he is selling "breeding pairs."

I am sorry I wasn't able to be more help

And I am really glad you find my site helpful! I have done a lot of research and I really wanted to make a site where you can find ALL the info needed. It would have really helped when I was looking to get a Fennec, rather than the information scattered all over the net.

The best thing I can think of to offer help is to contact Angela. Ask her if she has a permit and if it could possibly transfer over to you. Her Fennec Tinkerbell is quite sweet and even lets them dress her up (even though I do not recommend this).

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Posted : January 3, 2011 9:25 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

It's alright Wes. I'll figure something out. If you don't mind my asking, did the breeder you knew in Ky acquire her foxes in-state? Or did s/he acquire their foxes before the new exotic pet ban? (I'm not asking for sources - I just want to see how prevalent keeping illegally imported fennecs is. Of course, if the breeder got them pre-ban, then this would be irrelevant.)

I had read a little on the Ken's Exotics site. But a breeding pair is definitely not something I'd ever want to start with.

And...your site is immensely helpful. It was the second place I went to after my interest was sparked in keeping foxes as companion animals. Especially since fennecs are what I'm really interested in.

Hmm...I'll look into getting in contact with Angela.

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Topic starter Posted : January 3, 2011 9:48 pm
tombraiderwes
Reputable Member

I think the breeder got them pre-ban, and it has been a few years.

Usually once I delete a breeder off my website, it is kind of out of sight out of mind. I remember I had listed a breeder once that retired, and when I finally got a hold of them to see if they were still breeding, they got irritated I had them on.

I try to delete everyone's contact info after they either asked to be removed or are retired.

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Posted : January 3, 2011 9:54 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

That makes perfect sense. I was just curious.

Hmm... Well, I don't know where to proceed from here. I've got a few years. But the acquisition is going to be a bit more difficult than I had previously anticipated. Ah, that is the way with exotics, no?

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Topic starter Posted : January 3, 2011 10:01 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

I heard back from KY Fish & Wildlife today, regarding whether or not it was legal to possess Fennecs in KY. First, my reply to his original email. (See posts above for more information.)

Dear Mr. Baker,

Thank you for the information. Since the fennec fox is illegal to import, are they legal to possess in this state, assuming they were born here? This would, of course, be under the assumption that the animal had the proper USDA papers stating its place of birth in Kentucky.

Thank you again for your help in this matter.

And...his reply.

You may possess these animals as long as you obtain verifiable paperwork to show that they were legally obtained in Kentucky, and the breeder can provide evidence that they were raised in the state and not illegally imported. The proper USDA papers should suffice. You also need to check your local ordinances to ensure that your city or county does not prohibit ownership of this type of animal. Sometimes local ordinances can be stricter than state regulations. Most local ordinances primarily concern themselves with inherently dangerous animals. The fennec fox is not inherently dangerous. My research also shows that it is not considered an endangered species.

If you need further technical assistance regarding paperwork, please contact biologist Chad Soard at chad.soard@ky.gov.

On a side note, thank you for contacting us regarding the legalities of ownership. We sincerely appreciate folks who want to understand and comply with the laws and regulations regarding wildlife.

Sincerely,
Dave Baker
Ky Fish and Wildlife

So, that's good at least. Fennec foxes are legal to possess, but not legal to import.

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Topic starter Posted : January 4, 2011 9:53 pm
trish_clare
Reputable Member

At least you got somewhere! Although it's weird that you have to jump through so many hoops. Does that mean if a fennec fox was brought to KY illegally, then its kits were born in KY and it had kits, the new kits would be legal? It seems that they are slowly trying to get fennec foxes out of the state, hopefully you will be able to find a breeder.

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Posted : January 4, 2011 10:11 pm
Artemis
Eminent Member

Aye. I do wonder what they'd do in the illegal-fennec-having-kits scenario. But, more importantly, I hope I can find a breeder. There do not seem to be any in KY. And with these laws in place, I think it'd be rather impossible to become one.

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Topic starter Posted : January 5, 2011 7:46 am
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